apollopop

I'm talking within the context of a proper Islamic caliphate set in the Muslim world, not that we hijack Western countries and force Sharia in right-wing propaganda style, if that's your concern. But within the Islamic nation, you *can* enforce. Forbid evil is not a theme under invite good, they are two distinct commands. Consider murder. Is that banned for Muslims only, or for everyone? Well within a Muslim nation, evil also includes things like distributing explicit material. If you're a non-Muslim minority... follow the law.

The no compulsion verse means you cannot force anyone to convert, and yes there are provisions allowing minorities to govern themselves in accordance to their own scriptures. But this doesn't make the Islamic system akin to the western model where no morality beyond that which causes immediate harm is upheld. It's because of the Islamic system that the Muslim ummah (back when it was united) did not get compromised. And it's on this basis that when we see corruption, we should consider it our fault for adopting an ineffective system (western liberalism) instead of blaming Jewish people.

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apollopop · 3/27/2025, 9:10:16 PM · permalink

on Why we shouldn’t blame the Jews in islam

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apollopop · 3/25/2025, 9:14:50 PM · permalink

on I'm convinced the BLM was a government Psyop to drum up more support for the police in uspolitics

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apollopop · 3/25/2025, 6:36:09 AM · permalink

on Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth). in islam

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apollopop · 3/25/2025, 2:32:12 AM · permalink

on Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth). in islam

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apollopop · 3/24/2025, 10:51:55 PM · permalink

on Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth). in islam

Wow, I need to refer to the English translation more often because I miss so much when I read without it. 2 easts and 2 wests is interesting, Tafsir Ibn Kathir says it's the east and west of winter vs. summer. That makes sense because where exactly the sun sets moves a bit as the seasons change, so in winter it's more southwest. But it could also be referring to something else because the verse is specific and if it was a seasonal thing wouldn't that entail a range of locations? Whenever there's more than one uncontradictory explanation / possibility I always assume the verse entails all of them since the Quran's meanings are infinite.

The 4D theory and jinn being made of radiation is super cool. It makes a lot of sense and reconciles it well with science. And I've always thought the Quran left the possibility for multiple planets or universes open. Surah An-Nahl 16:8 says "˹He also created˺ horses, mules, and donkeys for your transportation and adornment. And He creates what you do not know." What we don't know could be as mundane as some marine animal in an unexplored part of the ocean but it always made me think of aliens. It's all speculation of course and Allah knows best, but I enjoy pondering the possibilities.

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apollopop · 3/23/2025, 10:28:56 PM · permalink

on Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth). in islam

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apollopop · 3/23/2025, 4:32:19 AM · permalink

on Why isn’t anybody talking about the veterans Protest? It’s both republicans and democrats. No news coverage in freethinkers

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apollopop · 3/23/2025, 1:59:49 AM · permalink

on Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth). in islam

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on So, I design a new formula for democracy in politics

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apollopop · 3/10/2025, 1:34:02 AM · permalink

on I believe religion is a next biggest hurdle for humanity to overcome. in freethinkers

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apollopop · 3/10/2025, 1:17:48 AM · permalink

on I believe religion is a next biggest hurdle for humanity to overcome. in freethinkers

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apollopop · 3/9/2025, 6:38:56 AM · permalink

on [deleted by author] in islam

Salam @adambahri! Thank you for this correction, you are right. We should not obey if it means disobeying Allah SWT. I specified, however, we should only be in countries which allow private practice of Islam. So if a country doesn't allow prayer, we should disobey. And practically speaking, laws don't force us to do anything impermissible. Countries allow drinking, for example, but they don't force Muslims to drink. If a country bans prayer or forces alcohol consumption, we should try our best to leave. The closest I can think of to a type of impermissible law may be how women are legally entitled to 50% of the man's assets following divorce. Instead we should divide assets in accordance to Islamic guidance. In that case, we refrain from "obeying" this law by not utilizing the court system to insist on that division - none of this precludes us from being law abiding citizens. Laws generally must be obeyed as explained [here](https://daruliftaa.com/miscellaneous/obeying-the-law-of-the-land-in-the-west/) and [here](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/176910/ruling-on-abiding-by-the-law-of-the-land-in-western-countries). And Allah knows best. Appreciate you bringing up this point!

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apollopop · 3/9/2025, 12:15:07 AM · permalink

on Awaken >> Find Like Minds >> Then What?? in freethinkers

A system is made up of a million individual parts, and each part is complicit in its function. We can blame Israel, but imagine if no person running for office was willing to take a check from AIPAC. Or administer a transhumanist chip. What would happen then? We like to think that all those around us are good people. But how many people do we come across who have no integrity, who throw others under the bus, who let others do their work for them, who will abandon their values for a promotion, who will lie for popularity, who have no compassion? And how many more people are secretly like that, but no situation has yet come and revealed their character?

A society of honest people naturally succeeds, and I believe God grants successes and contentment to those who live honest lives. What we can do is make sure we ourselves are good people (I myself am far from perfect). And then we can make sure our children are good people. Societies rise and fall over generations. When enough people have the balls to do the right thing no matter what, things will correct. But it requires sacrifice on the part of those who will do it first, those who will stick to their principles at a time where the system still rewards those who don't. And it takes time.

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apollopop · 3/8/2025, 9:00:35 AM · permalink

on [deleted by author] in islam

I think a helpful distinction to make is the distinction between practicing Islam in your private life and implementing Islamic law on a nation-wide level. Both of these things are considered obligatory upon Muslims, but the idea that Islamic law will be forced by Muslim citizens in the West onto Europeans is a construct of media propaganda and based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how a true Islamic state is supposed to develop.

Touching on the point of private religious practice - this is a requirement upon every Muslim irrespective of time and place, and entails maintaining your five daily prayers, fasting, giving charity, etc. Nothing about this should be threatening, since in this case Islam is practiced much like how Christianity is within a secular nation. (Citizens practice privately, the nation remains secular.)

Since private practice involves the bare minimum of every Muslim's religious duty, a Muslim is only allowed to live in a non-Muslim nation if the right to private religious practice is protected. But what must also be added, is that part of Islamic rules is that we must **obey the laws of the foreign nation we are in**. There is no incompatibility between obeying the laws of a non-Muslim nation and truly practicing Islam. That's because, as established, you are only allowed to immigrate to nations where the right to private practice is already protected. There is Islamic precedent for this from the time of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him. New Muslim converts were persecuted by the polytheists of Mecca, and so some of them traveled to Abyssinia since it granted religious freedom. They did not try to impose Islam on the populace. **They were true practitioners of Islam.**

**To your first question: Can a non-Muslim nation adequately protect the religious freedoms of a Muslim minority?**

Yes, it can. Muslims in the West (with the exception of some countries such as France, perhaps) are allowed to privately practice their religion. While they might endure some harmful attacks as a result of Islamophobia, none of this is state-sanctioned and violence is a possibility anywhere. Not to mention, many Muslims actually endure even more harm in Muslim majority countries. This is because no Muslim-majority country currently implements Sharia and those who advocate for it are often imprisoned. The reason for this is because most Muslim leaders are puppets to western powers. (The West installs oppressive, power-hungry leaders and helps them remain in power so long as they enact western interest and persecute those who speak out against it and / or them. This is a mutually beneficial arrangement for the two parties that occurs at the expense of the populace.) The West does not want to see a proper Islamic state anywhere in the world. You mentioned UAE. The UAE should not, in fact, have secular law if it were a true Islamic state - not to mention it is complicit in many crimes towards Muslims around the world.

You used the UAE as a model of protecting non-Muslim minorities. Since I'm opposed to the UAE, you may now be wondering if a Muslim nation can still truly preserve the religious freedoms of a large religious-minority population. To answer: Yes. This is because part of Islamic law is that religious minorities may, in fact, enact their own laws and courts under the umbrella of the Islamic state. I'll use a word that, if you're American, should hopefully clarify how this works: **federalism**. Think state vs. federal rights. Except instead of state laws, its laws enacted by non-Muslim communities for themselves. This is a provision within Sharia.

Now to the second point on Muslims' duty to establish Islamic law. This duty is to establish law **amongst the Muslim people**. Not to immigrate to some other random country and dictate your values on its populace.

People in the West believe in secular values, naturally they want a government that establishes secular values. Muslim people believe in Islamic values, naturally we think Islamic law is best. The West, which claims to believe in the right to self-governance, should not be imposing its values on people who do not believe in them. Of course, they do it anyway - since a true Islamic state does not divide on national, ethnic, or cultural lines, it would make up a huge block of people united on very strong values. This would effectively end western hegemony (with all its unethical wars on terror and support of oppressive regimes) and hence why it is threatening. Islamic conquest is also very much a thing. Muslims see it as a way to spread justice to Muslims and Non-Muslims alike (Ik this seems bad, but it’s a natural position anyone who believes in anything takes. Consider how the west uses the UN to try and force us to do what it thinks is right. Like normalize LGBTQ rights). Historical precedents also show how Islamic rule can be better in some cases. Take the Byzantines as an example. One of the many reasons why they were so effectively conquered is because their populace immediately preferred Muslim rule (way less taxes!). And keep in mind the point above about how minority rights are protected.

This is what I know to the best of my knowledge. Feel free to agree / disagree. May God forgive me if I made a mistake anywhere, and hopefully that sheds some light on your questions. Peace!

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What exactly IS Islam about??

Why we shouldn’t blame the Jews

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