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Parent Post: The "Grooming Gangs" of UK, Islam & Pakistani Muslims
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In Reply To
braven
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3/15/2025, 5:34:49 PM
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Again, you are making interesting points. Appreciated. Nothing has to exist out of necessity. This is a false premise and circuitive by its very nature. If you are going to suggest that every event must have a beginning, please extend that very theory to your theory of God. It seems strange that many religious claims are made using scientific terms. As if somehow they lend authority to the argument. They do not. Science has no answers for God. If there is an answer, it will come from non-logical theories. We live in a nonlogical universe. While math can explain certain physical properties, it fails on metaphysics. The liquid inside your body is Non-Newtonian and does not follow the 'laws' of physics. Fascinating stuff, yet we pass it off with a wave of the hand. Logical, illogical...and non-logical. Most religions fall into the category of illogical when non-logical seems to be the approach to take entirely. Forget logics....it cannot grasp non-logical arguments for good reasons. What would be interesting would be to have a working theory on living past our own ignorance. We are lied to from birth....and here we are. Peace.
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deletejuice
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3/15/2025, 7:15:33 PM
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In my post, I have already presented my arguments on - 1\. why an uncaused existence must exist out of necessity 2\. why the universe or multiverse cannot be this uncaused necessary existence You are responding but you haven't gone through them. If you are sincere, you can go through them, find the issue and then respond with that. Again, I am not referring to any religion or a specific "god" of a religion, so it's no use to bring religion into the picture. I can make the exact same arguments from a Deistic position and it wouldn't make any difference. Furthermore, you have made a couple of strange claims which go against the established scientific and logical principles for which the burden of proof, again, lies on you - 1\. we don't live in a logical universe 2\. non-newtonian fluids don't follow the laws of physics Quick refutations of both - 1\. If we truly didn't live in a logical universe, then logic, mathematics, and science would be utterly useless. The very statement “we don’t live in a logical universe” is a logical proposition attempting to convey truth, which is self-contradictory if logic doesn't apply to the universe. 2\. Idk where did you get this one from but non-newtonian fluids most certainly follow the laws of physics and their behavior is described by the Navier-Stokes equations, just like newtonian fluids. They simply don’t follow Newton’s law of viscosity, which is part of their definition. Lastly, we know that pure mathematics can't explain metaphysics which is why my arguments aren't grounded on an emperical evidence but rather on ontological deductive evidence. It's just that this type of reasoning has it's roots in mathematics.
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braven
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3/16/2025, 3:18:19 PM
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Let me clarify the points you seem to take issue with first. It isn't a lack of sincerity that keeps from answering your point about your uncaused existence. I did answer it. What you are 'attempting' to do is impossible. The English language was not designed to 'prove' things like that. Tough call here. However, I am interested in your ideas, but we might get further if we clear a few things up first. To that end, I will attempt to answer your thoughts on points 1 and 2. 1- We do not live in a logical universe. Logics, mathematics and science do the best they can to use logical thought and implementation to explain those things that can be explained. Some of our existence also deals with illogical patterns that we do not understand at all. Most of our existence deals with non-logical patterns. We do not understand them very well, but they seem to have a pattern but more is yet required to understand it. We do not live in a purely logical universe. This is a non-trivial aspect of our existence, yet there it is. 2 - How would you know if Non-Newtonian fluids, inside the human body, follow the laws of physics? No one knows this. This is an amazing unknown. Anyone pretending to know this stuff is not doing the rest of us much good. Torus fields, plasma crystals and plasma consciousness, etc....inside our body is an entire universe of unknown. So far, I feel like I have gone further than most, if not all, yet I know next to nothing on this subject. It has been an odd journey on that front, and amazing on other fronts. Much to learn. I am willing to flesh this out with you, but most comments of certainty on this subject matter should be met with great skepticism till we nail down some points of contention. Peace.
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