Comment on White Flag by q2025

q2025 · 3/5/2025, 4:40:09 PM · permalink

Perfect question. In fact, I wrote a little about it with my previous comment and then decided to delete it and take it step-by-step for clarity.

I'm glad you pointed out the conflation, so let me backtrack one step and clarify that. I think I see where I missed an important qualifier.

First, I said that IF there IS a creator and a creation one MIGHT consider the creator worthy of praise. It's an unknown (for now) if the creator should be praised or not. I admit that in my previous comment, I should have added the questioning qualifier "might" in the following sentence also so it read "it doesnt necessarily mean that the creator needs worship, but that (the creator) might be worthy of worship"

Let's determine if the creator is or is not worthy of worship a little later.

For now we have only determined that IF we accept a creator and creation exist, it would also means that a relationship of some sort exists between the two entities. You can call that relationship whatever you choose. Some might describe it in terms of ownership. Some might say it's cause and effect. Independent and dependent maybe? Parenthood? A connection or an association? I'm not sure if there is an adequate name or a term for such a relationship between two entities, one a creator and the other a creation, so let's just call it a relationship.

What is the nature of that relationship? good or bad, weak or strong? I hypothesise that would be determined by the nature and behavior of both entities.

And I guess we can test our hypothesis with examples like art and artist, father and son etc. Should hopefully lead to some logical insights soon 🤔

Let's look at the creators role first and a few possible options...

One could argue for an apathetic creator. You make the art and you toss it away. You abandon your son. In both cases the relationship still exists between the creator and the created but its not a strong relationship and I doubt anyone would think that creator good enough to be worshipped.

You could possibly even have a vengeful, evil, sadistic creator who creates you to punish and torture you. That relationship would definitely not be good - definitely no voluntary worship.

On the other hand, if the creator values the creation, takes care of it, gives it attention and priority, nourishes it, helps it, protects it.... I assume we can call that kind of creator "worthy or worship".

But the above assumptions only reflect my personal views. You may or may not share them. Not all humans are the same. Humans are not one dimensional dots. Humans were created with a wide range personalities, emotions, circumstances, and so on, and these definitely impact their thoughts and beliefs.

So, lets leave my bias aside and i see that whether or not other creations "consider" the creator as being worthy of praise or not, depends less on the real nature of the creator and more on how the creation views the creator, through their personal lens, which is inevitably tinted by their individual opinions, emotions and personality.

Grateful, appreciative, optimistic creations might see the best in all that the creator has created for them, even if they suffer personal hardships for a majority of their lives.

Greedy, ungrateful, depressed creations might never think a creator worthy or praise, let alone worship, if they're the type to never be content with anything. They could be intelligent, rich and blessed and still never be satisfied.

Some creations might love the beauty of the cosmos and appreciate it's intricate science and fine tuned balance, and consider that a basis for praise.

Some might be too selfish to give such topics a thought live their lives having fun.

What this shows is that every living, self aware creation will have a different point of view on whether the creator should be worshipped, praised, ignored, insulted, undermined, supported, etc. And that's exactly what we see in the world... Every human has their own attitude towards their creator.

Would you agree with this logic? That every creation would have it's own opinion on if the creator is worthy of worship. Your personality would determine your point of view, irrespective of what the others thought or what the creator thought. I think it holds pretty well.

Now, coming back to you creating art. That doesn't make you a god, even if the art could worship you. The reason is that you might be the tool that adds the finishing touches, but are not the ultimate originator or creator. You didn't create the elements that were used in the paint. You didn't create the tree that provided the paper for the canvas.

I guess you could be considered a god if you and your art were the only two entities in the universe. But if you're two entities in an infinitely large system with trillions of other entities, you'd be nothing very special. Ultimately, in the overall system only the penultimate creator, the originator would be considered "worthy of worship"

That's just my personal humble opinion. It's not some time honored wisdom or religious explanation. Would welcome any criticism or suggestions to help me improve that logic.

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