Comment on Proof of God by logical

Parent Post: Proof of God · In Reply To

logical · 3/16/2025, 6:33:24 PM · permalink

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deletejuice · 3/16/2025, 7:35:04 PM · permalink

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logical · 3/16/2025, 7:59:30 PM · permalink

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abdullah · 3/21/2025, 1:24:42 AM · permalink

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tajudeen_bin_tijani · 4/10/2025, 3:25:44 PM · permalink

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abdullah · 4/11/2025, 1:46:22 PM · permalink

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tajudeen_bin_tijani · 4/11/2025, 3:10:12 PM · permalink

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abdullah · 4/11/2025, 3:51:07 PM · permalink

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tajudeen_bin_tijani · 4/11/2025, 4:22:43 PM · permalink

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abdullah · 4/12/2025, 6:00:12 PM · permalink

To put it in simple terms, for a hadith report to be accepted, it must pass stringent tests and checks to verify its authenticity. Authenticity meaning how certain we are that the hadith was stated by the one it is attributed to.  
  
I say 'one it is attributed to' because a 'hadith' can refer to a statement or action or tacit approval that is attributed to the Prophet PBUH, one of his Companions, or one of the salaf (the two generations of pious successors to the  Companions). Classically, the scholars of hadith used the term 'hadith' for all three groups.  
  
In terms of which of these should be taken as sources of divine revelation, most definitely the Hadith of the Prophet PBUH, as I pointed out previously when I listed the verses clearly stating that its an obligation to obey the Prophet PBUH and follow him. Some scholars also took the Hadith of the Companions as authoritative sources for Islamic legal rulings.  
  
Going back to the authenticity of a Hadith, the scholarship of Islam have collectively determined and canonized the methods and criteria through which a Hadith’s authenticity can be determined. To sum it up in a few sentences, this involves dissecting and critiquing the following aspects of a Hadith:  
1\. The chain of narrators  
2\. The contents of the Hadith, i.e. the statement, description of an event, etc  
3\. Subtle defects within the contents or chain of narrators  
  
Examining the chain of narrators involves investigating each narrator to determine their trustworthiness, character, reliability in transmitting the Hadith, whether they actually met the narrator they took the Hadith from and the narrator they passed it down to, and many more things.  
  
Examining the contents of the Hadith involves determining of the Hadith contradicts a verse or verses of the Quran (which, if it did, would automatically make it inauthentic).  
  
A subtle defect in a Hadith is something which could render an otherwise authentic Hadith to be inauthentic or reduce its level of authenticity. For example, a hadith which mentions that the Prophet PBUH used to eat pineapples would be considered a fabrication because we know that pineapples were not even known to people in the mainland until the year 1493 BCE. Another example is, if a narrator with some Shia sentiments who is also a trustworthy and reliable narrator narrates a Hadith about the virtues of the Household of the Prophet PBUH; even though we know such a narrator is not a liar, this presence of potential conflict of interest is enough to add a subtle defect to his narration.  
  
I should also mention that there are gradations in the authenticity of a Hadith, ranging from undeniably attributable to its source (Prophet PBUH, companions, or salaf) all the way to complete fabrications. Which gradation a hadith receives is based on the scholar’s methodology for grading Hadith, so when we look at the grading of a Hadith, we need to first see who gave it that grading and what was their criteria.  
  
So to answer your question: a hadith can be accepted as long as it meets the criteria laid out by the scholar’s of hadith with no exception and standup to extreme scrutiny (this would include Shia sources).  
  
Let me also mention that if we were to apply the criteria and methods of the Hadith scholars to any other historical event or persons, would find that most historical accounts cannot be proven to be authentic! This is how stringent and strict the criteria and methods of the scholars of Islam are.

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logical · 3/21/2025, 1:30:21 AM · permalink

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abdullah · 3/22/2025, 5:10:59 AM · permalink

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logical · 3/22/2025, 5:13:16 AM · permalink

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abdullah · 3/22/2025, 12:13:28 PM · permalink

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abdullah · 3/22/2025, 12:14:37 PM · permalink

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logical · 3/22/2025, 6:33:13 PM · permalink

I don't rely on my mind or intuition alone.  I follow many teachings from the bible, and other spiritual writings and teachings.  I fully admit I am not some type of prophet or even of above average intelligence, quite contrary I am quite dumb and that is of the only certainty we as mortals can have.  
  
I also want to make it clear I am not trying to push anyone away from Islam or Christianity.  As these religions provide So much wisdom and guidance to us humans in our life on earth.  Quite the opposite in fact.  
  
I want to also make this clear, I am not a biblical scholar, or even a highly religious person.  I haven't read seriously into the bible for 20+ years.  I do not believe God intended us to spend our mortal lives bickering over texts and interpretations.  
  
I believe we are meant to explore this Earth, Make mistakes, correct our behaviors, Learn wisdom in many types of ways and experiences.  
  
My interpretation is that Jesus did not want to Create Christianity or Religion.  But to **END religion**, This is why %%we are all children of god%%.  
  
My **interpretation** is that God did not want us to Create Church's or **Use our faith** publicly as a vain public showing.  One should not claim to be more pious or righteous in public such as prayer as a tool to inflate our own ego or demean others, who do not pray publicly.  
  
I believe God knew I would find the internet.  I believe he knew that I would explore many facets of many religions and valuable texts that contain wisdom from many sources.  
  
On my Day of judgement, I believe God will judge me for how I **lived my life**.  Not for how many times I read a book and followed the rules., or who I chose to believe or put my trust into.  As I have said my relationship with God is between Him and me.  How I speak with him is between us and how he chooses to send me signs and alter my path is his mysterious ways.  
  
I think there are message's between the lines of the words of man.  Some are meant for me, some are meant for others.  Such as I choose to eat pork.  As I believe in ancient times, the Pig being quite a disgusting creature unable to control its own appetite.  Eating pig can lead to many diseases and plagues.  However with proper control of the Creature by man, it can be tamed and fed and eaten safely.  
  
**Be fruitful and multiply**! This wisdom is very important in ancient times.  In order to spread the word, and help lift people out of squalor and primitive animalistic desires.  It was key that the followers, and those who possessed this knowledge, be fruitful, and multiply so the teachings can be spread by more and more people as the generations pass.  However this also reaches a conclusion where we do over populate the earth, and then what? Terraform mars?  I am no globalist death cult, reduce the population type.  I believe the Earth can harbor billions and billions more people still.  There is plenty to go around.  I just mean at some point Be Fruitful and Multiply does have a limit, eventually.  
  
Since the Bible or the Quran are just words on pages.  And Language can be confused, words interpreted.  I choose to not only live by some words, but find lessons in every aspect of my life.  Signs come in many forms to many people, The Burning bush comes to mind.  Maybe I had a particularly **good day fishing**, every time I cast my line, a %%fish is provided%% to me and my family.  This is also teaching without words or books, or prophets, religions, churches or prayer.    
  
I choose what I find good and evil based on how it makes me feel in my own true self.  While I suffered a period of time Womanizing in my younger days.  And found much pleasure in the touch of a woman.  It also made me feel much Shame, usually the next morning, or when I could not return the love or admiration a woman might then have for me after sex.  These things do not feel good in my soul.  And this is God's way of teaching me things.  Some Lessons may be easy to learn, Some are Hard and take much time.  I'm sure there may be some Lessons I never fully learn.  
  
If it was easy than someone would have figured out this whole life thing already.  But I think this is a key point.  It is not meant for us mortals to know everything, We are curious for a reason.  The Journey is also the Destination.  How can you truly know everything that is wrong or right, if you have not had the experience of many things.  While some things are very clear, The 10 commandments, Don't steal, don't murder etc.  Many things are also learned the hard way in life.

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abdullah · 3/22/2025, 6:59:24 PM · permalink

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logical · 3/22/2025, 7:22:55 PM · permalink

I clearly stated I am not a prophet, and I am not trying to lead anyone to anywhere.  I am just following my path.    
  
As I said I believe Christianity and Islam both are important and provide many tools to people such as morality.  How to live, and how to raise children.  This is my key belief in God, that he provided to us the tools to Ascend beyond the animals and depraved behavior.  
  
I do not wish To spread my beliefs which Is why I do not.  I am simply responding to your inquiries with my beliefs.  And not Making pochas or spreading my interpretations all over in an attempt to convert anyone or "Create my own morality or religion".  
  
I believe all people should raise their children in a moral religion, to give them a firm base of morality.  This is what separates us from the animals of the earth.  Morality is the basis of civilization, without it we descend into chaos.  I also believe I have made it clear that I do not include Zionist propaganda in the teachings or wisdom that I believe or share with others.  
  
Obviously my path and my story is different from many others.  Many do not have the privilege's of being born into a family that teaches them the Moral knowledge of Abrahamic religion. To be me, you would have to live my life the exact way I have lived it, which is impossible.  And I am not a great example to learn from, either.  While I strive for perfection, in everything that I do.  I suffer from bouts of OCD and perfectionism.  There is no one that could be Harder on me, than myself.    
  
I also find much knowledge in the Tao te Ching.  While I may not agree with all of its teachings either.  I find it useful in certain times, and contexts.  Not to find a loophole in God's Plan.  But to help people in different ways.  
  
My only goal spiritually wise, is to help people who believe in **%%nothing%%**, and descend into chaos and confusion.  To find some type of light and positive moral basis to nudge them out of self harm or repetitive abusive behavior.  Into a more positive mental and physical state.   
  
This may be different for every person and every situation.  Yesterday I found a man on this website that seemed to be in a hopeless situation, he spoke ill of Religion and seemed to be in a bad spot, stuck between a rock and a hard place.  As his current state of him espousing his distaste for Christianity and or Islam.   
  
I would think that me quoting scripture to him would simply fall on deaf ears.  I choose to speak some wise words from the Tao to him.  As something is better than nothing.  And even those who are Lost can be found.  I try not to Shame people for the circumstances they find themselves trapped in.  But rather offer a helping hand in a direction that might be positive.  A Step in the Right direction is often all it takes to help someone who is lost find the right path to righteousness. Not that I am Righteous either, just a man still, trying to find a balance.

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