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Parent Post: Proof of God
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In Reply To
L
logical
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3/22/2025, 9:29:51 PM
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Yes it is indeed the crux, and you are correct in my Subjectivity. This is also why I do not run for political office or seek power over any other person. I am not suggesting everyone else do what I do. This is one of the many things I admire about Muslims, Their devotion and stoicism. In this you have my utmost respect. However In me trying to help someone, I do not believe I have all answers, or a Higher Moral standing or values. But simply a helping hand and a perspective to offer. While you are correct I would not try to help someone who did not seem to be in a tough circumstance or situation. Is it not righteous to attempt to help those who seem to seek it?
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L
logical
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3/22/2025, 9:31:11 PM
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I want to add I have greatly enjoyed discussing this and hearing your perspective @abdullah
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abdullah
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3/23/2025, 2:07:49 PM
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I'm glad we were able to have this discussion as well. I think it's important to do so, so that we have a better understanding of and try to come closer to the truth. I think each of us has made their positions clear: I follow an objective morality based on Allah’s (God's) final revelation, the Quran, taught by the Prophet PBUH; you follow a subjective morality partly based on your personal subjective experience and upbringing as well as a mix of wisdoms from all sorts of religions but mainly from the Abrahamic faiths. To conclude the discussion, I brought up the problems of subjective morality (how one cannot say others are doing evil because all of morality is relative) and argued why objective morality is required. And from what I gather, it looks like you dont have an issue with your subjective moral values. I hope anyone who's struggling with this topic or wondering about it will read our conversation and come to a conclusion. @logical I only hope that you reflect on your own position a little more. Here's some food for thought: next time you see someone commit a crime, petty or horrific, think to yourself "morality is relative so maybe that person has justified their crime to themselves morally, in that case who am I to say what their doing is wrong? Do I have the moral right to say that person is behaving in an evil way?" If you answer yes, then you, in-fact, believe in objective morality and I invite you to this discussion again so we can continue on the path to finding God. If you say no, then I ask you: **what is the point of morality if there's no difference between good and evil?**
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L
logical
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3/23/2025, 2:40:13 PM
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I assure you I continue to contemplate many moralities. As even I question my own subjective moralities at times. Should a father holding his starving daughters body not steal food in such a circumstance of hopelessness? Would it not be better to beg for forgiveness in such a situation? I appreciate you taking the time and having this discussion with me greatly. However I believe we have left things at a good spot. As I believe most of what is left to discuss is simply what we disagree about. I wish to focus on what we agree about to unite different cultures. Perhaps some day I will find myself in need of more knowledge from the Quran, in this time I would know where to start. Thank you for your kind offer.
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