Comment on winning hearts and minds by sonatime

Parent Post: winning hearts and minds · In Reply To

sonatime · 5/2/2025, 7:47:52 AM · permalink

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devnm23 · 5/2/2025, 9:32:30 AM · permalink

Assumptions:

So I'll start with the assumption that this is a genuine conversation. Two or more people speaking honestly about what they think in an open mind manner. I want to start with the initial image.

Let's start first with confirmations:

Yes, Islam does allow marriage at an early age and allows consummation earliest at puberty. Menstruation typically begins around age 12, but can start as early as 8 or as late as 15.

Bleeding earlier than the typical earliest age of Menstruation is treated as blood of illness or abnormal and not treated as periods.

Let's add some nuance;

Marriage at such a young age needs approval by the parents and the Imam can decide whether or not he approves to conduct this marriage contract. If he does conduct this marriage contract it is not as strong as a marriage conducted by an adult and has greater grounds to be suspended or annulled later on.

In practice Muslim rulers can set a date for example 15 etc this can be for various reasons such as changing social norms. Imams would have to comply.

The Challenge:

Of course it understood non Muslims have a different set of values and still find it repellent.

However, here is the challenge: give me an alternative age for marriage that isn't arbitrary from a logical perspective.

a. Using another scripture would require defending that scripture and probably would have other issues that won't be appealing. And we have simply swapped one scripture for another but sure have a try

b. Something objective the closest thing would be biological capacity since pure logic doesn't concern itself directly with morality or rules. Then interestingly at menstruation as far as biology is concerned makes you an adult and as far as evolution is concerned at the age to fulfil the closest thing to ones purpose of existence.

Of course in Islam there are more conditions than that but from an objective stance based on biology there are no objections.

c. How about social norms? Well they differ across the world. And differ generation to generation so it's somewhat arbitrary to just cling to one society at one particular time over another without a higher authority of evidence.

d. An opinion of course we can simply choose to believe whatever we want but that isn't a compelling reason to change someone else point of view.

I think you'll find there isn't a compelling reason to set one purely objective particular age for marriage and if you use biology it resembles Islam

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thoughtcriminal_1984 · 5/2/2025, 12:21:48 PM · permalink

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privacyplease · 5/3/2025, 7:49:23 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 5/2/2025, 12:22:53 PM · permalink

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thoughtcriminal_1984 · 5/2/2025, 12:18:44 PM · permalink

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sonatime · 5/2/2025, 9:41:57 AM · permalink

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sonatime · 5/2/2025, 1:06:29 PM · permalink

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sonatime · 5/2/2025, 8:45:54 PM · permalink

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sonatime · 5/2/2025, 1:22:33 PM · permalink

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privacyplease · 5/3/2025, 1:09:57 AM · permalink

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devnm23 · 5/2/2025, 10:39:58 AM · permalink

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sonatime · 5/2/2025, 12:57:38 PM · permalink

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