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Parent Post: Proof of God
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In Reply To
deletejuice
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6/2/2025, 1:56:25 PM
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So you are presupposing god, which means you are not an atheist, which means my objective is already complete & this post is not for you. Predestination or Qadar is a pillar of Islam, which means without the belief in Qadar (and divine decree, aka Qada), one can't be a muslim. So we are the first to acknowledge and know about this. Predestination and trials of life is a separate topic. Yet I will answer it since it's a very simple thing which people overcomplicate. You are right, God is all knowing and already knows the outcome of all tests. But the idea isn’t that God needs to test us for His knowledge. The test is for us, to let our choices actually play out in real life. That way, reward or punishment is based on actions we really took, not just what God knew we would do. Think of it like an ideal teacher who knows which students will pass, but still gives the exam so the results are fair and public. The test gives everyone a chance to choose, grow, and be accountable. Also, tests in life help build patience, character, and faith. So it’s also part of spiritual development. So yeah, God knows the outcome, but we still go through the process - not for His sake, but for ours.
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hyokkim
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6/2/2025, 5:16:47 PM
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''So you are presupposing god, which means you are not an atheist, which means my objective is already complete & this post is not for you.'' Not necessarily, I have already stated repeatedly, all Abrahamic religions are fictions. ''You are right, God is all knowing and already knows the outcome of all tests. But the idea isn’t that God needs to test us for His knowledge. The test is for us, to let our choices actually play out in real life. That way, reward or punishment is based on actions we really took, not just what God knew we would do.'' It's more than that; we are what we are, intellectually, morally, and physically because God had already decided. God knows the actions we will be taking intimately long before we are even born. We take those actions because that's what God had preordained before we are even born. The notion the punishment/reward is at least partially based on actions we took, independently of what God would do amounts to sophistry since we take those actions precisely because God had already decided we would do so. ''Think of it like an ideal teacher who knows which students will pass, but still gives the exam so the results are fair and public. The test gives everyone a chance to choose, grow, and be accountable.'' God is more than a teacher; a teacher does not decide what we would be intellectually, morally, and physically before we are born. God had decided whether we would be smart, strong, moral, or not before we are even born. No, test does not give a chance to choose, grow and be accountable, since God had already decided who would be worthy enough to pass those tests before we are even born. ''Also, tests in life help build patience, character, and faith. So it’s also part of spiritual development.'' No, God had already decided who among us would be good enough to pass, build patience, character, and faith; whether one is good enough to accomplish what you said above had already been decided by God. ''So yeah, God knows the outcome, but we still go through the process - not for His sake, but for ours.'' No, we are not going through the process for our sake; we never agreed to be even born; it was His decision that we are born, and to go through the process. This is the case based on the idea of omniscient God.
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deletejuice
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6/2/2025, 7:07:33 PM
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Your position is self contradictory and collapses by itself. You reject the idea of a necessary existence yet, acknowledge it at the same time in your arguments. Pick a side and stick to it. If you say God = fiction, then present your arguments against mine from the post. This is a theological argument, not Islamic. I am merely citing the source of my definition of a necessary being through Quran, without forcing anyone to agree with all other attributes of God as written in Quran.
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