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Parent Post: [deleted by author]
q2025
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12/6/2025, 4:57:42 AM
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I think the bigger philosophical question is about your perception of God and religion, and if that God requires an intercessor between you and God. My gut tells that if a perfect God was to communicate with humans, God's wisdom and logic would be flawless and timeless. This would also mean that God's religion and laws are not open to interpretation by a pope, a priest a cleric or a rabbi, or open to evolution due to changing social trends. And I think this is where all religions have gone wrong because it only takes one bad pope, one greedy sheikh or one evil rabbi to spoil the true religion for millions. Jews and Christians read the same old testimant but the jews interpret it a wholly different way simply because of what the rabbis said and wrote in the talmud. If you read the bible as an outsider you'll pretty quickly decide that 97% of Jesus statements and actions are monotheistic in nature so logic says that the 3% that are 'controversial' should be interpreted with the same monotheistic mindset. But Christians dont, mostly because they've been taught by popes and priests wearing trinity glasses. If you read the Quran yourself it easy to see it doesn't allow for suicide, suicide bombings, targeting civilians, or even accidentally killing civilians as collateral damage. But one twisted cleric can give convince people otherwise, simply by cherry picking verses and misusing them in the wrong context. To me, this where religion goes wrong... when you allow human interpretations to cloud your understanding and rely on human intercessors to reach god. So, to me, any pope, rabbi or cleric that offers any judgment which is in obvious contrast with the text, is misguided at best, and demonic at worst. Today, after centuries, we can judge the pope that allowed usury, the rabbi that condoned the rape of goys and the sheikh that encouraged terrorism. It'll be the same for popes that killed capital punishment because atheists and satanists at EU criticized it. Comes back to the same question... does a man, any man, even a prophet or a pope, have the authority to override Gods law? Or offer an interpretation that's clearly against the text? Or intercede on God's behalf and offer forgiveness and sainthood? Peace 🙏
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rusalka
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12/6/2025, 5:10:53 AM
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[deleted by author]
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q2025
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12/6/2025, 8:18:10 AM
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You're right. I was more focused on the bigger question. But it also answers your question... in my opinion, no pope should be able to change the rules of the death penalty if it is established clearly by the bible. Two aspects pertaining more directly to your question. 1\. As I understand it, Jesus wasn't crucified under Torah law but under Roman law. At least technically, the charges were sedition against ceaser because of the title "king of Jews". 2\. Jesus himself never nullified the torah law. Jesus clearly said he has not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it, which to me indicates that he wanted the fulfilment of the law in spirit and not as the weapon of lawfare, monopolized by the elites that it had become... which was the same reason previous prophets came. The idea that torah law has been anulled is from Paul only. Paul taught that Jesus said the old law would be in place till all was finished, and since his last words were "it is finished" (in John 19:30 only) it therefore meant that the old law had been fulfilled and no longer a requirement to follow. This is also the reasoning given when other popes have made changes to biblical laws. Most Christians dont read the bible so they don't question this odd, twisted logic, or the reason why Johns account of the time, date and last words at the crucifixion are very different from the accounts of time, date and last words mentioned in the earlier gospels. They also don't ponder that such a strand of logic actually means Christians dont have to follow any laws at all. So no, in my opinion Jesus did not abolish or negate the law, including the verses you cited. But by Pauls logic, there is no law to follow after Jesus. Peace 🙏 Side note: Actually, sainthood, as practiced today, is an entirely man made concept. The first canonization did not occur till 993AD for Saint Ulrich of Augsburg.
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