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R
rusalka
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p/christianity
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12/5/2025, 11:23:14 PM
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sonatime
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12/6/2025, 1:19:06 AM
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I always excused myself from jury duty for the simple fact it could drag out for too long and I was never in the mood, but perhaps I missed out on me influential cases. I can't even get interested what is the official stance of the Catholic Church, just never liked Pope's political stances and lost interest long ago. But strictly speaking Genesis 9:6 wouldn't have been rescinded but the Mosaic Law would not apply to Christians. However, Genesis 9:6 can be understood as an acceptable civil government role and new testament doesn't dispute this but to be directly involved in such judgements is an interesting dilemma. I think it is acceptable for a Christian to serve on jury duty and if one has a conscientious personal objection then it should be disclosed in order to disqualify oneself. I think both can be acceptable under the New Testament and Genesis 9:6
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rusalka
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12/6/2025, 4:37:47 AM
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sdgathman
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12/16/2025, 12:38:25 AM
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I haven't seen Francis' reasoning, but the reason I've heard is specific to our current govt and goes like this: The US govt condones and even enforces the murder of millions of innocent people each year, including hundreds of adults in situations like Terri Schiavo. Therefore there is no intention to protect the innocent in death penalty cases. (Even with good intentions, you get bad mistakes like Tim Evans - the Institute for Justice finds evidence to release people wrongly imprisoned for murders they did not commit, or that were not murders, e.g. mothers with severe vit D deficiency have their babies die of broken bones, and imprisoned for beating them, but lack of vit D caused the brittle bones.)
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rusalka
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12/16/2025, 12:55:33 AM
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sdgathman
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12/16/2025, 1:08:47 AM
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They didn't "allow" Schiavo to die. She had no machines or medical care keeping her alive - it was "active" as opposed to "passive" (unplug the machines) euthanasia. Her parents fed and cared for her at no expense to others. She was sentenced to execution by a judge because her ex husband claimed "she would have wanted it that way". She was capable of limited communication, and most assuredly did NOT want it that way. Instead of electrocution, she was sentenced to death by dehydration, whispering for water 4 days - even lengthier than crucifixion. She was guarded by police for the entire proceeding to make sure no one brought her water (or vinegar). Those who attempted to do so were arrested. The Romans were "kinder", breaking legs after a day to finish the job.
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rusalka
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12/16/2025, 2:21:36 AM
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sdgathman
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12/17/2025, 12:23:16 AM
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Suicide is also murder. MAID programs are demonic. Such severe trials help prepare us for glory.
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rusalka
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12/17/2025, 1:19:38 AM
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saarnok
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12/16/2025, 12:57:08 AM
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Theologically it makes little difference. Jesus could be killed by a mob (sort of was). The verses you cite have nothing to do with justifying his killing, though perhaps I'm not seeing your point in including them in this context. After consideration, perhaps you're simply reminded of the killing of Jesus as a peripheral issue you've included here. The death penalty was practiced throughout the ancient world and was as likely to be considered merciful as not, hence the various inventive means of execution developed. To answer your direct question... sort of, the very idea that "criminals" would not be executed is a concept that simply could not be developed until the possibility of keeping people alive had become in some sense reasonable. If you accept the story as written; Jesus was executed according to Roman custom and in accordance with Jewish sensibilities. "The People" had no more to do with the matter than they ever did, which is to say, very little. In the world to follow heretics of Christianity (false teachers) would be executed according to the Roman law established for currency counterfeiters, burning alive, which they adopted ultimately from the Egyptians. This would develop into the "[auto da fe](https://www.britannica.com/topic/auto-da-fe)" ritual which persisted some 400 years, with the last recorded instance being in Mexico in 1850, though the obvious parallel to African "[necklacing](https://vocal.media/history/necklacing)" which wasn't restricted to Africa and as you can see if you follow the link the modern leftist tries to justify. If you had suggested to Christians before that last two hundred years or so that people should not be executed for any number of "crimes", the very best you could hope for would have been a blank stare of incomprehension. Which you should not take as any critique of Christianity. This is the standard response of human beings towards those who refuse to participate in our shared delusions.... and to criminals... and we can't necessarily tell the difference.
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q2025
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12/6/2025, 4:57:42 AM
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I think the bigger philosophical question is about your perception of God and religion, and if that God requires an intercessor between you and God. My gut tells that if a perfect God was to communicate with humans, God's wisdom and logic would be flawless and timeless. This would also mean that God's religion and laws are not open to interpretation by a pope, a priest a cleric or a rabbi, or open to evolution due to changing social trends. And I think this is where all religions have gone wrong because it only takes one bad pope, one greedy sheikh or one evil rabbi to spoil the true religion for millions. Jews and Christians read the same old testimant but the jews interpret it a wholly different way simply because of what the rabbis said and wrote in the talmud. If you read the bible as an outsider you'll pretty quickly decide that 97% of Jesus statements and actions are monotheistic in nature so logic says that the 3% that are 'controversial' should be interpreted with the same monotheistic mindset. But Christians dont, mostly because they've been taught by popes and priests wearing trinity glasses. If you read the Quran yourself it easy to see it doesn't allow for suicide, suicide bombings, targeting civilians, or even accidentally killing civilians as collateral damage. But one twisted cleric can give convince people otherwise, simply by cherry picking verses and misusing them in the wrong context. To me, this where religion goes wrong... when you allow human interpretations to cloud your understanding and rely on human intercessors to reach god. So, to me, any pope, rabbi or cleric that offers any judgment which is in obvious contrast with the text, is misguided at best, and demonic at worst. Today, after centuries, we can judge the pope that allowed usury, the rabbi that condoned the rape of goys and the sheikh that encouraged terrorism. It'll be the same for popes that killed capital punishment because atheists and satanists at EU criticized it. Comes back to the same question... does a man, any man, even a prophet or a pope, have the authority to override Gods law? Or offer an interpretation that's clearly against the text? Or intercede on God's behalf and offer forgiveness and sainthood? Peace 🙏
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rusalka
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12/6/2025, 5:10:53 AM
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q2025
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12/6/2025, 8:18:10 AM
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You're right. I was more focused on the bigger question. But it also answers your question... in my opinion, no pope should be able to change the rules of the death penalty if it is established clearly by the bible. Two aspects pertaining more directly to your question. 1\. As I understand it, Jesus wasn't crucified under Torah law but under Roman law. At least technically, the charges were sedition against ceaser because of the title "king of Jews". 2\. Jesus himself never nullified the torah law. Jesus clearly said he has not come to abolish the law, but to fulfil it, which to me indicates that he wanted the fulfilment of the law in spirit and not as the weapon of lawfare, monopolized by the elites that it had become... which was the same reason previous prophets came. The idea that torah law has been anulled is from Paul only. Paul taught that Jesus said the old law would be in place till all was finished, and since his last words were "it is finished" (in John 19:30 only) it therefore meant that the old law had been fulfilled and no longer a requirement to follow. This is also the reasoning given when other popes have made changes to biblical laws. Most Christians dont read the bible so they don't question this odd, twisted logic, or the reason why Johns account of the time, date and last words at the crucifixion are very different from the accounts of time, date and last words mentioned in the earlier gospels. They also don't ponder that such a strand of logic actually means Christians dont have to follow any laws at all. So no, in my opinion Jesus did not abolish or negate the law, including the verses you cited. But by Pauls logic, there is no law to follow after Jesus. Peace 🙏 Side note: Actually, sainthood, as practiced today, is an entirely man made concept. The first canonization did not occur till 993AD for Saint Ulrich of Augsburg.
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q2025
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12/6/2025, 3:35:10 AM
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I think this falls into the bigger philo
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q2025
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12/6/2025, 3:35:48 AM
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Yeah, this was obviously not the full comment. Lemme try again
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