Comment on Children of Adam: let's find at least one common ground by turkey

Parent Post: Children of Adam: let's find at least one common ground · In Reply To

turkey · 12/13/2025, 10:39:39 AM · permalink

'PERFECTLY PRESERVED' Your claim, not mine. And yet the Bible makes no such claim, and you hold 'it' to that standard. That is what I meant when I said you can't come from a place of honest debate.  
  
Sahih al-Bukhari (Volume 6, Book 61, Hadith 509)  
  
"Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham (Syria) and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to Uthman, 'O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before.'  
  
So \`Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.'  
  
Hafsa sent them to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-As and Abdur-Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies.  
  
\`Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, for the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue.'  
  
They did so, and when they had written many copies, \`Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa.  
  
\`Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt."  
  
The main problem with saying the Qur'an text is 'perfect' is the big time difference between when it was revealed and when it was finally written. Caliph Uthman ordered the text to be made standard around 650–651 AD, which was only 18 years after the Prophet died. This action itself proves that God could not keep his own text the same for even 18 years, because Uthman had to fix several different versions and stop people from fighting over them. Also, the original dialect of Quraish is now a dead language that nobody speaks. This means we cannot know the 'exact', 'original sound of the revelation'. The problem gets worse because the early Uthmanic copies were missing the little dots (i'jam) that make letters different (like a 'B' from a 'T') and the vowel marks (harakat) that show how to pronounce words. These necessary marks were not fully added until about 300 years later (around the 9th or 10th century AD). This means the final book we read today is the result of many years of 'human' work to fix an unclear written script. This long historical change creates a conflict with the Qur'an's own claim that it was revealed as a 'clear' and 'perfect book from the start'.

2 bumps

Signature