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Parent Post: Iblis (The Default Caliph) of the Caliphate (Earth).
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q2025
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3/25/2025, 12:41:47 AM
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I'm aware of the winter and summer interpretations but I think that's a little weak. If that was the case it would only be true at the summer and winter solstice for *sunsets*. *East and West* still wouldn't change. And sunrise and sunset is actually at a different place on a daily basis so then it would be many sunrises and many sunsets. But I it says 2 sunrises and 2 sunsets. One scholar proposed this was a scientific miracle because it shows Quran knows concept of the difference between magnetic north and true north etc. Also saw a theory it was an advance prediction that the poles would shift so east and west would change, and in recent years scientists have shown that the poles have flipped many times in the past as well. Another idea was its referring to earthly vs heavely sunrises and sunsets. I think scholars got ideas according to different eras. In our times the 3 and 4 dimensional difference might sound plausible. But to be honest I'm not very convinced by either theory. All we know is that it's true because Quran says so. It's good to think about it but bad to pass a judgment on it, coz that might end up being wrong. And im always reminded of:
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apollopop
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3/25/2025, 2:32:12 AM
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Very curious what you were reminded of at the end there :). The many sunrises and sunsets was my immediate objection too. And east and west not changing is a good point. The issue with seasons and also pole shifting is that they don't align with the way I intuitively understand the verse. If it says "2 easts and 2 wests" what comes to my mind is 2 simultaneous easts and wests. Magnetic and true or the earthly and heavenly theory match my immediate understanding of the verse a bit better. Of course any of these theories could be right or wrong, so we shouldn't pass judgement as you said. And I'd say yes, scholars definitely get ideas according to different eras. I see that as part of the miracle of the Quran, how certain details can shift meaning and maintain the Quran's accuracy over time. Ofc this only applies to the kind of minor things we're discussing, I don't mean to insinuate that rulings or laws change with time or anything like that.
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q2025
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3/25/2025, 6:19:00 AM
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Agree with every word! Apologies that the image didn't load in the last comment. I was reminded of:  But like you said, these are minor theories, nothing to do with tenets of faith, so perfect area of exploration to unravel the mysteries of the universe. I'll start a new thread with my favorite scientific miracle from the Quran. Want to stop messaging here simply so this thread stops getting bumped and our non-muslims friend stop seeing the misleading idea that Allah would appoint iblees as a temporary God 🤦
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apollopop
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3/25/2025, 6:36:09 AM
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Yes this verse sums it perfectly. And good call on the new post. I think iblees the caliph is a recycled Christian idea bcuz I've heard Christians refer to him as "The Prince of this World." Definitely don't need to reinforce that message
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