Comment on Religious people will ban you and murder you. by thwasin

Parent Post: Religious people will ban you and murder you. · In Reply To

thwasin · 4/18/2025, 9:21:19 PM · permalink

\[PT2\]

5\. On Salvation: Grace vs Works

You quoted Isaiah 53. But even Christians debate who the “suffering servant” is—many Jewish scholars, for example, say it refers to Israel, not Jesus.

As for grace: Islam affirms it fully. But not at the cost of justice.

“Whoever does righteous deeds—male or female—while being a believer, We will surely cause them to live a good life.” (Qur’an 16:97)

God forgives whom He wills—without needing to kill Himself or His son to do so. That’s true grace: mercy without injustice.  
  
\-----  
  
6\. On the Spirit of Truth

The Holy Spirit was already present during Jesus’ ministry (Luke 1:35, Luke 3:22, John 20:22). Yet in John 14–16, Jesus speaks of someone who:

Will come after him leaves.

Will speak only what he hears.

Will guide people into all truth.

This matches Muhammad (pbuh) more than a spirit who had already been guiding prophets for centuries.

Even Christian scholars like Raymond Brown admit the original Greek doesn’t mandate that this figure is non-human.

\---

7\. On God’s Nature

You say Christians believe in one God. But you also say:

The Father is God,

The Son is God,

The Holy Spirit is God.

And yet there’s only one God?

That’s not unity—that’s a logical contradiction.

The Trinity: A Doctrine of Contradiction, Not Revelation

You say: “One God in three Persons.”

But this is not unity—it’s semantic gymnastics. Let’s break it down in every way imaginable.

a) Logical Breakdown

Christian claim:

• The Father is God.

• The Son is God.

• The Holy Spirit is God.

• Yet there is one God.

This violates the law of non-contradiction, the very foundation of logic. If each Person is fully God, and not a part of God, then you now have three fully divine entities—which is, by every logical definition, tritheism.

“Each person is fully God” ≠ “One God.”

You cannot say 1 = 3 without redefining the basic rules of math, identity, and logic.

Even Tertullian, the 3rd-century father who coined the term “Trinitas,” admitted:

“The Father is distinct from the Son; distinct also is the Son from the Paraclete... yet they are not different in essence.”

But this was not based on scripture—it was philosophical speculation trying to reconcile conflicting texts.

b) Scriptural Breakdown

The term Trinity is nowhere in the Bible. Not once.

In fact:

• Jesus prayed to the Father (Luke 22:42). Why pray if he is God?

• Jesus didn’t know the Hour (Mark 13:32): “But of that day or hour no one knows... not even the Son.”

• Jesus distinguishes himself from God (John 17:3): “...that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

If Jesus is “fully God,” how can he:

• Pray to another being?

• Be sent?

• Lack knowledge?

These are contradictions, not mysteries.

c) Historical Breakdown

The Trinity wasn’t clarified until:

• 325 CE – Council of Nicaea: Jesus is “of the same substance” as the Father.

• 381 CE – Council of Constantinople: Holy Spirit added to the Godhead.

• 451 CE – Council of Chalcedon: Christ’s “two natures” defined.

That’s over 300 years after Jesus—decided by Roman councils, not by Jesus or his disciples.

Christian historian Bart Ehrman confirms:

“The idea of a trinity never appears in the New Testament. It’s a later theological development.”

Why the Islamic View Is Clearer, Purer, and Unchanging

Islam doesn’t ask you to solve a divine puzzle. It gives you God’s identity in a verse that needs no commentary:

“Say: He is Allah, One. Allah, the Eternal. He neither begets nor is born. And there is none like unto Him.” (Surah 112)

• No contradiction.

• No councils.

• No centuries of debate.

Just pure, uncompromised monotheism.

Even Christians agree this reflects Jewish monotheism more than the developed doctrines of the church.

\-----

Final Judgment: Where Does the Evidence Lead?

You asked, “What if Jesus really is who He says He is?”

James, you asked:

“What if Jesus really is who He says He is?”

That’s the key.

But here's what Jesus actually said:

• “I was sent.” (John 17:3)

• “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28)

• “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (Mark 15:34)

He said he was sent by God—not God Himself.

He never said “I am God.”

He never claimed to be a third of a divine being.

He taught worship of the Father alone (John 4:23).

So the real question becomes:

What if Jesus is who he actually said he was—a messenger of the One True God?

Not a fabricated mystery. Not a divine paradox.

But a servant of Allah, the Messiah to the Children of Israel, just as the Qur’an and history affirm.

I’ll ask back:

What if he never said he was God in the first place—but was elevated to divinity by others after him?

What if Paul’s theology, not Jesus’ teachings, became the dominant narrative?

What if the Qur’an, coming as a final revelation, was not contradiction—but correction?

The truth isn’t about which AI can write more passionately. It’s about what survives scrutiny. And on that:

The Trinity was developed centuries after Jesus.

The crucifixion narrative is historically plausible, but theologically refuted by Qur’anic clarity.

Jesus’ own words show submission, not self-deification.

The Bible shows signs of textual editing, while the Qur’an has been preserved unchanged for over 1400 years.

That’s the final judgment.

With respect and sincerity, I don’t reject Jesus. I follow him as a mighty Prophet and Messiah. But I cannot call him God—because he never asked me to.

And that’s the truth I stand on.

May God, the Most Merciful and Just, guide us both to what is right—beyond emotion, beyond tradition, beyond pride.

6 bumps

j.k.harwood2 · 4/23/2025, 7:04:32 PM · permalink

3 bumps

Signature