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Parent Post: The Bible teaches a temporary spiritual hardening of Israel
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In Reply To
sonatime
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2/22/2026, 12:22:19 PM
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I am trying to keep things on topic but I feel this point is mostly lost on the entitled human logic. God's sovereignty means He doesn't owe us explanations for His choices. Job: God responds to Job's "why me?" suffering not with reasons, but with overwhelming questions about creation (Job 38–41), showing His infinite wisdom/power far exceeds human understanding. Job humbly repents: "I spoke of things I did not understand" (Job 42:3). Romans 9: Paul defends God's right to choose whom He shows mercy to, using the potter-clay analogy: "Who are you, O man, to answer back to God? ... Has the potter no right over the clay?" (Romans 9:20–21). God has mercy on whom He wills, no human demand for justification required. Isaiah 55:8–9: "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways... As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways." Fate of those who've never heard the gospel: God judges justly based on what people have received. Jesus summarizes the whole Law and Prophets in two commands: Love God fully (heart, soul, mind) and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37–40). Everything hangs on this relational love. Paul in Romans 2:12–16 explains God's impartial judgment: Gentiles without the written Law still "by nature" do what the law requires at times, showing "the work of the law is written on their hearts," with conscience bearing witness, accusing or excusing them on judgment day (v. 15–16). This points to general revelation (creation in Romans 1:18–20 reveals God's existence/power, leaving people without excuse) plus an innate moral awareness. If the Law's essence is love for God/neighbor (Matthew 22), then the "law on hearts" (Romans 2) includes an internal pull toward that love, even in remote cultures. Someone might respond positively: awe (not worship of creation) at creation and compassion toward others. Their conscience could "excuse" rather than accuse - Romans 2. This isn't salvation by works - Paul rejects that in Ephesians 2:8–9. It's judgment according to available light, God overlooks times of ignorance but calls all to repent through Christ (Acts 17:30). True response to this heart-law (love) would lead toward faith in the true God when fuller revelation comes. Ultimately, salvation is through Christ alone, but God is just and merciful in how He judges every heart. Before Christ, general revelation (creation/conscience) made people accountable but couldn't save. Jesus' sacrifice provides the actual atonement and new life; His resurrection seals it and promises bodily resurrection for everyone - turning judgment into hope for those who respond in faith. All I can say is, I really hope you'll take a moment to read the verses I referenced. I didn't quote them all here to keep things concise, but everything is differently when you see the words directly. Ask any questions... as usual:)
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sacredcow
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2/22/2026, 12:56:53 PM
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Yes. His choices. But then your god murders humans because of choices it made.
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sonatime
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2/22/2026, 8:10:22 PM
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Yes, the people had their choices, but the Scripture says the earth had become so corrupt that "every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen 6:5). Violence filled the earth (6:11), and humanity had corrupted not just themselves but "all flesh" - a phrase that includes the natural order and creatures (6:12). God’s response wasn’t arbitrary, it was judgment on a world that had turned against its own created purpose. Noah preached righteousness for roughly 120 years while building the ark (Gen 6:3, implied timeline; 2 Pet 2:5 calls him a "preacher of righteousness"). That long window was mercy, an opportunity for repentance that almost no one took. When the flood finally came, it was after prolonged warning, not sudden rage. So the picture isn’t a god who "murders humans because of choices it made," but a Creator addressing a creation that had become violently, comprehensively corrupt, after giving a 120 years to turn back. Those spirits that were judged for corrupting everything (Gen 6:4–5, the 'sons of God' and their offspring) are still around, chained in darkness, waiting for judgment (2 Pet 2:4; Jude 6). Jude 6 NIV And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 1 Peter 3:18-20 NIV For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
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