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Parent Post: Fear mongering at it's finest
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In Reply To
sacredcow
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1/18/2026, 8:48:10 PM
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Yes. By not killing other humans you are granting them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Without a power that would punish you for killing a human, nothing would happen to you. Nature doesn't care. The universe doesn't care. If an innocent person doesn't have an advocate, such as the government, people who don't "grant" others basic liberty will go unpunished. Yes, I maybe using "grant" a little differently than you. We are but fallible people. This is where I would start the bases of my government, those words. We are but fallible people...
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saarnok
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1/18/2026, 9:02:50 PM
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Precision in language is not merely pedantic. I'm not killing people on the other side of the world right now and it has no bearing on their rights. Their rights are a matter of whether or not they, like me, have free will and as such should be recognized as only properly being interacted with on a basis of informed consent. This is more important perhaps than you're realizing. By using the term "grant" you are putting it within the rightful preview and authority of the entity doing the granting to refuse to do so. By utilizing the word "recognize" is implies that the concept transcends the individual people themselves and is universally applicable regardless of the power of those involved. "Grant" is objectively the wrong word. It's not a mere stylistic phrasing difference.
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sacredcow
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1/18/2026, 9:10:50 PM
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Well, you may recognize rights. I think most humans want to do evil. If there wasn't a force that would find you for committing violence most people would be violent. Tribes were small for a reason. Cities came into being because of "government" or a person such as a lord, king or tribal leader that passed down laws. I don't think anyone recognizes anything. This is why we need the government to force humans into this way of thinking. "Rightful preview and authority of the entity doing the granting to refuse to do so." Yes. Unfortunately today in this human world that is the case.
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saarnok
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1/18/2026, 9:33:20 PM
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It's non optional. Unless we have an accepted underlying principle of free will leading to a principle of voluntary consent then the government enforcing the idea will just devolve into "social justice" or whatever nonsense prevails at the moment. Rights cannot be granted. They must be recognized. Any right granted can be rescinded by the same authority, because a grant of right can only be made by authority wherease recognition of rights is outside of authority.
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