Comment on Islam and pedophilia by redpillrick

Parent Post: Islam and pedophilia · In Reply To

redpillrick · 2/27/2025, 6:59:48 PM · permalink

9 bumps

abdullah · 2/27/2025, 10:24:50 PM · permalink

I'm just a guy trying to have a deep and good intellectual discussion where we deconstruct each others assumptions and come to a sound conclusion, but oh well ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ I have a feeling I might get more memes, ad hominems, and capslock from you but let's do this anyways. Don't sweat it bud.  
  
**9 Years Old**  
This is just the assumption I'm making because you're refusing to engage with but it seems that you have an issue with the age 9 because you probably view it as being "too young" because you have a Western view on age and adulthood, where, for some reason, Westerners have decided arbitrarily that an 18 year old is an adult and is mature enough to make decisions and give consent to everything, and any one below that age is not an adult and cannot give consent to most things but there are exceptions like sex changes and deciding what gender they are  (what's the criteria for these exceptions anyways? The standard seems pretty bizarre and subjective to me 🤨).  
  
But why is an 18 year old an adult? Does this mean that someone who's age is 17 years, 364 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds is NOT an adult but then when that one second passes and they become exactly 18 years old they then suddenly become fully capable and matures adults with full decision making ability, whereas prior to that they did not have such capacities??? (LOL) Have you never seen some of the "adults" who are 18 to 24 years old in university/college and the poor and stupid decisions they make?  
  
The even more bizarre thing is that despite people with Western "morality" claiming that people under 18 years are children who are not capable of making, for the most part (again, why the exceptions?), adult decisions, like drinking, getting a credit card, etc., such people have no issue whatsoever allowing children to engage in sexual behavior, from watching porn all the way to full on unprotected intercourse that could lead to pregnancy! How is it reasonable to not allow a child to drink, which has a lot a bad consequences, but allow them to engage in something which can have more devestating and severe consequences with no adult oversite?  
  
Compare this nonsense with the Islamic standard: a person physically becomes an adult when their body becomes mature, i.e. puberty for boys and period for girls which can happen as early as 9 years old but may occur as late as 15 years old in rare cases, it VARIES for each person (referred to as "buloogh" in jurisprudence, i.e. maturity); however, this does not mean they have the mental maturity, intellect, or rationality of an adult yet because people begin to mentally develop at different stages in life and at different rates. Islam recognizes that such a person, a physically mature person without full mental capacity, will begin to develop the same inclinations and desires of a fully-grown adult, i.e. sexual intimacy. But the problem is, this person doesn't know the best way to fulfill their need for intimacy through Islamically legal means, i.e. marriage. So you have a person who is developing sexual urges (boys, especially) and will want to engage in sexual behavior which can lead to many negative consequences if done incorrectly (even watching porn can have very negative consquences mentally, socially, and physically). How do you ensure such a person can have intercourse but minimize the possibility of negative consequences? (We will explore this further down)  
  
*Yes, I'm writing an entire essay. If you made it this far, good on you!*  
  
**Consent**  
It seems that you think "without consent" is some kind of gotcha against Muslims, but lets interrogate this idea of consent in Western "morality" and see it if it holds any moral value.  
  
Here are some questions for you to get your brain moving a little: what is the criterion for when someone can give consent to something? Does a 17 year old in Canada (where the legal drinking age is 18) or a 20 year old in the USA (where the legal drinking age is 21) need to ask for permission or consent from their parents to drink alcohol? If you say no then why? If you say yes then you're in big trouble (LOL). Can a 17 year old "child" give consent to have sex with an 18 year old "adult" or would that still be considered pedophilia (according to your definition of the word)?  
  
Furthermore, can two 10 or 11 year olds give consent to each other that they can have sex together? And if you say its fine for two 10 or 11 year olds to do this, why do these same 10 or 11 year olds need to have parental consent to go on something as trivial as a school trip? And why do such children need consent/permission from their parents to drink alcohol? If they can give consent to have sex, then surely they can understand the implications of drinking alcohol or going on a school trip and can make an informed decision independently, or am I missing something here 🤔  
  
In Islam, even if a person is physically mature but they are not fully mentally developed like the average adult, i.e. they can think rationally, understand how to deal with others, understand how others may take advantage of them (e.g. a young girl who can easily be tricked into an abusive sexual relationship), this person cannot give consent by themselves to enter a marriage or in fact any contract or transaction. Rather, this person will have a guardian (a "wali") appointed to them who make decisions on their behalf. Some of the conditions that a guardian must meet are that they must be physically and mentally mature i.e. fully-grown adults, and they must have the person's best interest at heart. Naturally, the one who would take that position is the father of the person because, typically, a father will want what is best for his children; of course this would be the case in a normal, healthy, and functioning society, like the kind Islam creates, unlike the West. If the father or guardian shows signs of not being fit to carry out the duty of guardianship such as mental incapability or harboring animosity towards his children, then the responsibility would pass on to someone else (there are very specific laws on the order of how it passes on, far beyond this discussion).  
  
**How it all comes together**  
To avoid prolonging this already long response: we have the problem of young people (who will have sexual desires) wanting to engage in sexual activity, despite them not understanding the implications of it and the obligations around it.  
  
The West solves this problem by allowing for full-on degenercy and unlimited sex between very young people no matter the age (or there is a limit but its not clear what it is and depends on who you ask; "subjectivism" anyone?)  
  
Islam solves this problem by allowing these young people to marry as soon as they are physically able, that is when they reach physical maturity, since such activity is not allowed outside of marriage, which is for many good reasons.  
  
\- Since young men are the ones to usually desire sex before young women, they will typically be the ones to make the first move and approach a young woman and her family about marriage.  
  
\- The father or guardian, who should be experienced and knowledgable enough to understand what the young man wants, and knows his daugher enough to know what is best for her, will make a decision on whether or not to go ahead with the marriage  
  
\- To further ensure that the young man is serious about the marriage and not looking to "beat it" (your words) and leave the poor young woman, Allah, in His wisdom, made it obligatory for the man looking to marry to pay a dowry to the woman he wants to marry. This dowry is based upon the customs of the society and how much the man can afford to give, but usually its hefty enough that the guy will think twice before trying to enter the marriage with the intention of fooling around.  
  
**Summary**  
Islam's solution to the aforementioned problem ensures that everyone can find a suitable person to marry and have a good relationship with, whereas in the West, sexual degeneracy and deviancy is permitted. Diseases, unwanted pregnancy, and fatherless homes be damned, as long as people can relieve themselves as though they were using a toilet, then what's the big fuss.

7 bumps

abdullah · 2/27/2025, 10:54:40 PM · permalink

3 bumps

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