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q2025
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p/freethinkers
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2/26/2025, 5:39:38 PM
Pope Fugger and Usury
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hamstertheory
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2/26/2025, 6:10:44 PM
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What kills me is that Christians do not fight for Heter Iska loan terms. Why does an ethno-religion give an entire people an unequal leg up when it comes to securing zero interest loans? That seems inherently discriminatory to me, but I’m just a humble Christian Gentile.
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q2025
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2/26/2025, 6:38:39 PM
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Fact is that Usury is banned in all three Abrahamic religions. The difference in approaches are: Muslims consider it a grave sin for all, irrespective of who the parties are. Jews consider it a sin when dealing with other jews but consider it ok to charge the gentiles. Christian doctrine considers it a sin but the overwhelming majority of Christian don't care and accept it without really wondering why Jesus threw the money lenders out of the temple.
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thoughtcriminal_1984
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2/26/2025, 6:48:17 PM
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Yeah but Muslims use a workaround don't they?
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eldermillennialx
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2/26/2025, 7:00:58 PM
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The link explains Islamic finance.... It reminds me of something similar called reward-based financing (it was briefly explained by Brian at ClearValue Tax)
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thoughtcriminal_1984
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2/26/2025, 7:05:58 PM
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I sort of get it already I think.. it's done like a fee?
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q2025
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2/27/2025, 5:05:06 AM
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The basic principle of the workaround method is that profit is allowed and interest is not. Basic example, you want to buy a house and pay back in a year. So bank says fine, but instead of 120k, the price we agree on will be 132k. So you do still pay an extra amount. But like I said, many Muslims don't agree with this method either.
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thoughtcriminal_1984
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2/27/2025, 5:08:22 AM
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It's clearly just a loophole.. I can sew why.
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q2025
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2/27/2025, 5:11:49 AM
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Thats my opinion too. To be fair, many Muslim to give interest free loans if they know you personally (irrespectiveof your faith). But obviously, these are usually smaller, personal loans and not the large institutional loans.
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ginafree
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2/28/2025, 12:56:27 PM
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Shared gains, shared risks. Use a partnership instead
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rick
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4/26/2025, 12:06:43 AM
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I remember something from somewhere about the there being a court Jew in medieval times so they would apply usury in Christian countries because it was a (or is) sin? Does the Vatican Bank charge interest?
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nevertheless
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4/26/2025, 12:31:59 AM
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The moment that Christians try to do anything that’s just for them is the moment the financial system clamps down.
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taintfarmer
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2/26/2025, 6:49:07 PM
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I am convinced on pure intuition alone that the Catholic church was founded with zionist money and jesuit dupes in an attempt to control the exploding global popularity of Christianity. The Roman Catholic written rules contradict the apostles and even the very words of Jesus Christ himself. It’s the biggest slap in the face to what Jesus established and the examples he gave when he walked the Earth.
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q2025
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2/26/2025, 7:08:13 PM
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That's what many claim, citing Paul's history as a Christ hating jew who changed his religion claiming to have seen a vision... after which he hijacked the church and changed Jesus's message.
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taintfarmer
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2/26/2025, 7:39:56 PM
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Never actually heard about anyone believing this idea. Divide and conquer must be one of Satan's favorite and most useful strategies.
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q2025
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2/27/2025, 4:32:41 AM
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Google anything like "Christianity before paul", "Jesus vs Paul", "Paul vs Peter", "Paul vs James", "Paul false apostle", "Ebionites" etc and you'll find a range of academic talks on the topic by Christian scholars mostly. Peace!
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joespindler
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2/26/2025, 8:41:40 PM
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Usury is not just the charging of interest ! You have to start with basic principles and this one is the oldest in the book. It all started with Free Will ! Free will is the Freedom, to do whatever you want with your Will ! The "Will" is your physical body ! And whatever you create with your body, becomes the "Testament" of your will. This is the origin of the first Jurisdiction (called the Air Jurisdiction, everything spiritual, non-physical, like a patent). In every ancient tradition, the body was also known as the "Land of your Soul", which is then the origin of the second Jurisdiction (called the Land Jurisdiction, everything physical). Whatever you physically create with your body then, becomes your "Property". In the third Jurisdiction (the Water Jurisdiction), you have NO free will, since on the high see, when a storm is coming, there's no time for a debate, someone needs to be in charge, otherwise the storm comes, the ship sinks and everyone is dead. This is why almost all "Legal" systems are usually run in the water jurisdiction (Admiralty). So, we have the 3x Jurisdictions, Land, Air and Water, which is the origin of the term the "LAW" ! Air Will & Testament Land Land & Property Water NO free Will That should tell you, that if you buy a piece of "Property", you didn't buy a piece of "Land" !!!!! You instead bought the rights, to "USE" somebody else's Land. And for this usage "USURY" you have to pay property taxes !!!!! So, USURY, is anything, where you use somebody else's Land or Will, not just charging interest ! This Usury was forbidden in any tradition on the Planet (considered a deadly sin) until the 5th century. The Roman Catholic church allowed it with Vatican II in 1965 !
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earthmightiest
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2/27/2025, 3:00:32 PM
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“There will come a time when there will be no one left who does not consume usury (interest), and whoever does not consume it will nevertheless be affected by it." https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:2278
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q2025
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2/27/2025, 4:08:46 PM
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💯
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sacredcow
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2/26/2025, 9:14:58 PM
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Please. Loan money out without interest. Get back to me on how you do. No one made the kings and elites wage war back in the day, for them to have to borrow money. Don't borrow money if you don't have to and don't borrow money on something you don't need. If you need something, save money. If you have troubles in your life, hopefully you have built friends, family and a community that will help you in times of need.
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redpillrick
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2/27/2025, 1:25:18 PM
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The problem is more specifically, compound interest on loans. I don't see why simple interest should be an issue
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