Comment on If America didn't have 11 Aircraft Carriers. by hyokkim

Parent Post: If America didn't have 11 Aircraft Carriers. · In Reply To

hyokkim · 8/24/2026, 1:56:29 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 8/24/2026, 2:01:28 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/24/2026, 3:34:50 PM · permalink

''So...your initials premise that stealth fighters are one trick ponies is flawed?

Because most of the time, the stealth fighter wins.

Right?''  
  
No, not within WVR; stealth fighter loses almost all the time to non-stealth 4th gen fighter jets.    The reason is built-in; the internal bay of stealth fighter jet makes COG hollow and makes agile maneuvering within WVR clumsy compared to non-stealth 4th gen fighter jets.  
  
Full stealth 5th gen fighter jets are a one trick pony; they are ideal for the initial SEAD, but not for anything else.   They cannot carry heavy loads of munitions for ATG, or interdiction, or can match the dog fight agility within WVR of non-stealth 4th gen fighter jets.  
  
''Again, you present your bias in a topic and can't separate them for some reason.

You have hatred for America but want ROK to do well.''  
  
You're the one goo goo ga gaing for Israel.  
  
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/pentagon-raised-threat-israeli-spying-us-highest-level-sources-say-rcna348565  
  
U.S. is wasting a lot of resources for that parasite, Israel while ROK helps U.S. while still doing very well; that's a fact.   
  
''Well?

Go fuck ROK in the ass and rape it and move the fuck back home.

I bet you murdered someone there, that is why you do well with criminals.

Hopefully Trump finds you and then we hear about a well known killer heading back to the ROK to have his head cut off.

But that is just a possibility.''  
  
Israel murdered U.S. military, and got away with it.  
  
https://www.military.com/massie-controversial-uss-liberty-naval-attack-renewed-attention-congress  
  
You're not a patriotic American, but a Zionist flunkie, posing as a patriot.   
  
https://soj.ooo/p/freethinkers/post/35b107082fd19602704d4fcc33cb1a03

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 11:16:50 AM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 1:21:24 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 1:47:10 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 1:53:52 PM · permalink

In actual, physical simulation, for defending nations, they are far more likely to engage in WVR, not BVR.  
  
For defenders, the advantage go to any 4th gen fighter jets, including FA-50.  
  
''The F-22’s “loss” was not without precedent. In 2009, a Mirage 2000 scored a “kill” against an F-22. The Rafale has claimed kills against the F-22, including during a recent exercise encounter over Finland.  
  
The German Eurofighter has defeated the F-22 in WVR during Red Flag 2012. And through the various encounters,s a thread has emerged: close-in engagements; constrained scenarios; training environments. These circumstances degrade the stealth advantage, which is strongest at a distance and less decisive once within the visual envelope. The pattern is consistent and less surprising than it may appear. ''  
  
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2026/02/stealth-fighter-down-334000000-f-22-raptor-was-shot-down-by-cheap-43000000-fa-50-fighter/  
  
Not only that, even USAF is phasing F-22 out due to its not being cost effective.  
  
https://voennoedelo.com/en/posts/id1622-f-22-retirement-why-high-maintenance-costs-ended-its-service

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 1:56:58 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 2:05:12 PM · permalink

''I don't think you understand.''  
  
No, it is you who do not understand.  
  
''The F-22 has radar.

It will just shoot the airplane down when it gets a radar lock.''  
  
Within WVR, F-22 stealth advantage disappears.   Within WVR, one does not have to use FOX 3; one can fox 2, that is, use Infrared missile, with infrared lock and 4th gen fighter jets are far more agile in dog fight within WVR than any 5th gen fighter jets, due to not having internal bay; internal bay makes COG hollow, and maneuvering clumsy.  
  
Within WVR, 4th gen fighter jets will be able to outmaneuver any stealth fighter jet, including F-22, and use infrared missile, instead of radar lock.   If F-22 uses thrust vectoring, it will create far more infrared signature, and make the enemy able to hit F-22 far easier!     
  
''Ya know?

You have this imagination that everything and everyone can shoot down American air power.

When?

Where?

It seems like the F-22 and F-35 are doing just fine in every engagement they get in.

In real life, not simulations.

If you speak about the future and changing warfare.

No fucking shit.

Arrows transform into artillery and so on and so on.''  
  
https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/19/politics/f-35-damage-iran-war

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 3:01:43 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 3:45:19 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 5:10:11 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 6:57:36 PM · permalink

Every actual physical simulated combat in WVR shows 4th gen fighters beating stealth jets; it was to be expected.  
  
''The F-22’s “loss” was not without precedent. In 2009, a Mirage 2000 scored a “kill” against an F-22. The Rafale has claimed kills against the F-22, including during a recent exercise encounter over Finland.

The German Eurofighter has defeated the F-22 in WVR during Red Flag 2012. And through the various encounters,s a thread has emerged: close-in engagements; constrained scenarios; training environments. These circumstances degrade the stealth advantage, which is strongest at a distance and less decisive once within the visual envelope. The pattern is consistent and less surprising than it may appear.''  
  
https://www.19fortyfive.com/2026/02/stealth-fighter-down-334000000-f-22-raptor-was-shot-down-by-cheap-43000000-fa-50-fighter/  
  
Stealth jets are inherently less maneuverable than 4th gen in WVR, due to internal bay making hollow COG, and thrust vectoring creates bigger infrared signature, making infrared missile more effective against fighter jet employing thrust vectoring.  
  
This gives advantage to 4th gen in WVR.

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 10:35:16 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/25/2026, 11:11:18 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 8/25/2026, 11:56:26 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/26/2026, 12:48:52 AM · permalink

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sacredcow · 8/26/2026, 12:34:21 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 8/26/2026, 4:11:41 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 9/5/2026, 7:33:58 PM · permalink

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sacredcow · 9/5/2026, 7:33:34 PM · permalink

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