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Parent Post: Do you know where or how the Marines got their theme song? Killing Islamic slave trading pirates.
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L
logical
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4/14/2025, 5:38:40 PM
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Morality wise. While it was in my opinion justified for the Americans to engage in the Barbary wars. They were capturing People from sweeden->iceland->uk->americas->africa and enslaving them. So were the Americans at that point, and others. Kind of replacing the old boss with the new boss with a different color team but similar principles. At least America eventually ended the slave trading in the Atlantic, so I think in the end it was for the best. Important to note the kingdom of Sweeden, and Sicily/italy also participated in this war against the Barbary coast pirates, aka the Ottoman Empire Pirates. It's important to view "Pirates" in the context of the time. Pirates were considered a "Necessary Evil" amongst Nations to avoid all out wars between kingdoms and countries. Countries would hire pirates, because they would fly under their own flag, and not the flag of a country. So if you are French, and you hate the Spanish, but don't want to start an all out war. You hire some pirates to mess with their shipping of goods from colonies etc. All nations did this "Soft war" style of piracy. The Barbary wars were the first accomplishment of the USA in the Atlantic theater which begun to establish American Dominance of the Atlantic. Starting in 1800, 100 years later by 1900 the USA was the Dominant power of the Atlantic Ocean. Like many things in history, the moral context, and eventual outcome is subjective and nuanced. hope this helps @sonatime
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sonatime
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4/14/2025, 8:09:53 PM
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Enjoying your presentations:) My puzzlement was a bit simpler. I didn't see the logic of using Barbary wars as an example of US expansionism because for most of the reasons you pointed out. Unlike the US-Spanish war that appeared shady to me:) and it was the first time I read about "water cure"
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L
logical
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4/14/2025, 9:35:45 PM
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Yeah The barbary wars weren't really an example of expansionism. More so a defense of American Shipping and sea travel. This story comes to mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Leander_Cathcart as for the Spanish- American war. It was inevitable. Water Cure torture was actually a practice started by the Spanish and continued by the Americans in the Pacific specifically the Philippines. Americans probably learning the technique from being prisoners of the Spanish originally.
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