Comment on Well, okay, YOU don't read the bible that way... by saarnok

Parent Post: Well, okay, YOU don't read the bible that way... · In Reply To

saarnok · 5/28/2025, 2:29:48 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/28/2025, 2:47:28 PM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/29/2025, 1:36:00 AM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/29/2025, 1:38:26 AM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/29/2025, 1:40:20 AM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/29/2025, 1:42:44 AM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/29/2025, 2:27:17 AM · permalink

I don't even know that either existed. I don't know that you suppose either existed.  
  
If I allow the general narrative of the story, and if I suppose that "God" caused this man "Abraham" to attempt to sacrifice his son, then the purpose in so doing is obvious.  
  
I can however think outside the parameters of the narrative, imagining a story that has several different speculative possibilities.  
  
I can imagine that someone who wanted to evade the responsibility of sacrificing his own son and with sufficient status in a cult which made such sacrifices, "revealed" the story of how "Abraham" (All Father) was stopped from doing so by God himself, and that the willingness to do so if commanded was the point, not the actual sacrifice.  
  
In this scenario the All Father (Abraham) is a legendary figure of myth, once an ordinary man, but blessed by God, who was the first to adopt the circumcision which marks cult members and their slaves as property to the "god" and under control of the cult.  
  
The claim would be that it is the circumcision which qualifies cult members, not sacrificing one's son.  
  
And, I can develop other equally plausible origins for the interrupted sacrifice story.  
  
Surely you're not such a simpleton that you require the obvious explanation within the accepted narrative? It's obvious. You'd have to be extremely dim not to get it without explanation. That's why it's not explained. Part of the point is that you get it without having it spelled out for you.  
  
Do you need me to spell it out for you? Or is this some sort of half witted "gotcha" intended to distract from the point of my post?  
  
Perhaps I will.  
  
Here's what everyone who isn't a moron already knows. "God" does not "test" Abraham so that "God" can learn something. "God" already knows the outcome of the "test". "God" is causing Abraham to test himself, so that he can feel certain in his commitment to do as God commands regardless of how horrible he personally feels about the command in question.  
  
The story was used by the priests who would demand acts of obeisance from the people to demonstrate that the legendary founder of their line did not fail to do as was asked, even up to and including the sacrifice of his own son.  
  
And, since I get the impression you really are a fairly simple sort, I'll point out that this veneration for the mythical "Abraham" is so pervasive in these people that even into the Christian era, in the story of Lazarus and the "rich man", it is "Father Abraham" to whom the "rich man" appeals in the afterlife, and that "Abraham" clearly has the power to send him back to the living to warn his relatives not to mistreat others so that they do not share his fate.  
  
This acceptance of a mythical, divine "Abraham" is so ingrained in the common people that the story survives intact despite being a gross, obvious example of inconsistency in Christian theology well into at least the third century CE.  
  
Now, if it's not too great a strain on your abilities, perhaps you can explain what this explanation does for you.  
  
A little brief addendum: I know the bible better than ANYONE you have ever met. I've studied it at levels you can't even imagine. Whether you're a knee-jerk atheist or a knee-jerk believer, not only will you not stump me with your silly questions, you won't persuade me of anything whatsoever.  
  
If you're a believer: I don't FUCKING care! If you're an atheist: I don't FUCKING care!  
  
The point of my post is not to build up or erode your idiotic, moronic, simplistic, vacuous, stupid belief or unbelief. It's to point out how someone could develop particular esoteric beliefs through interpreting these writings as cryptic, secret instructions to those who can interpret them.  
  
And, somehow, you interpret this as an invitation to pose some FUCKING stupid question with a FUCKING obvious answer, because somehow or other you think you're being clever!  
  
I'd prefer not to treat you as a FUCKING moron who imagines himself a great sage asking the most obvious questions that someone hasn't considered to prop up your fragile ego, but I'd also rather not entertain such idiocy for the sake of entertainment.  
  
There is NO WAY you're as stupid as you're presenting yourself to be, so quit presenting yourself in this manner and we'll all treat you as an ordinary person with something to contribute to the discussion.

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hyokkim · 5/29/2025, 4:05:32 AM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/29/2025, 2:48:01 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/29/2025, 4:51:25 PM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/29/2025, 10:11:06 PM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/30/2025, 1:04:59 AM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/30/2025, 3:38:30 AM · permalink

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hyokkim · 5/30/2025, 4:05:23 AM · permalink

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saarnok · 5/30/2025, 7:56:28 PM · permalink

It's not relevant to my post, yes. My post is not about what a story is thought to convey to ordinary people. It's what someone might make of it, the cryptic message they believe they are getting that ordinary people are not.  
  
Supposedly Charlie Manson perceived meaning in music that other people did not see. This supposedly helped him persuade his followers to commit crimes. Because he supposedly had a deeper understanding, an understanding of the cryptic messages in the music.  
  
David Koresh had an arcane understanding of the book of Revelation which he used to persuade people to join his cult.  
  
This goes on literally all the time, with perhaps the biggest example being modern Christian Zionists interpreting the bible as demanding their support for Israel.  
  
Whatever the seeming plain meaning of the writings, story, song is, my post is about what someone might imagine is a hidden meaning.  
  
Let's take an example that *hasn't* happened. Listen to the song: Mr. Roboto by Styx. It basically speaks from the point of view of a man pretending to be a robot minion of the rulers of the world who ultimately reveals that he is NOT a "roboto" and leads people to freedom.  
  
This song was popular when Mark Zuckerburg was conceived, and he, of all known celebrities is regarded as robotic, but, he has been "manning up". He also has the capacity to switch sides, throwing his considerable influence behind the effort of the populace to regain their freedom.  
  
If somehow this incredible interpretation were to gain adherents, it's entirely conceivable that one day we would see Mark Zuckerburg stride onto stage to rally people against tyranny to the song: "Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto!"  
  
It's all about the *hidden* message in the minds of those who hear the words. This is the very nature of "prophecy".  
  
Speaking directly to the holocaust narrative, many Jews consider the holocaust to be a fulfillment of prophecy. The very term "holocaust" relates to a burnt offering undertaken for the propitiation of "sin", which in the Jewish faith can be entirely circumstantial in nature.  
  
My post is about understanding how a cult could develop who were willing to engage in human sacrifice, who could imagine that creating people who are neither man or woman, who could imagine exterminating human life entirely as a mandate from... something beyond what men think of as "God".  
  
After all, what are we to make of what seems to be a hidden message in the story of Cain that "God" is capricious and unfaithful, as well as powerless to overcome those gods who accept human sacrifice and then keep their word?  
  
What does "God" say will happen to Cain? What does the story say actually happens to Cain? "God" specifically declares that Cain will be cursed from the Earth which accepted his brothers blood from his hand, and yet, Cain prospers beyond anything any other person of the time does.

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