Comment on Maranatha by sonatime

sonatime · 12/28/2025, 2:30:19 AM · permalink

No worries at all, I’m not offended in the slightest. Feel free to speak plainly and be yourself, honesty in good faith is all I ever ask for.  
  
You’re asking me to reframe the Bible as purely metaphysical insight and set aside its claims to history and physical reality. I’m afraid I can’t do that (hence the HAL 9000 meme ). For me, the Bible isn’t just spiritual poetry or moral teaching, it presents itself as rooted in real events, real people, and a real God who acts in history. Treating it only as metaphysical would feel like removing essential parts of what it claims to be. You called using the Bible as an accurate historic text “gaslighting.” I understand why it can feel that way in a world drowning in competing narratives. Truth often sounds extreme when falsehood is the default setting. But gaslighting requires intent to manipulate and make someone doubt their sanity. I’m not trying to do that, I’m just sharing what I sincerely see. Maybe show a couple concrete examples of where you think the Bible is clearly wrong on history or physical reality. I’m genuinely curious and it’ll help me understand your perspective better. In the meantime, two verses that sum up why I can’t easily compartmentalize it:  
  
Hebrews 4:12 – “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword…”  
2 Timothy 3:16 – “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…”  
  
The world does feel upside down right now and turning against “be fruitful and multiply,” against male and female as created realities, against so much of what Scripture lays out. That’s part of why it rings true to me rather than false. Anyway, no pressure, just wanted to explain why I can’t switch and treat it only metaphysically.  
  
Afterthought: I believe the contrast between truth and falsehood is more visible than ever right now. The secular world is saturated with gaslighting and polarizing ideology, the Bible has already been mostly omitted or reinterpreted beyond recognition in many doctrines, yet biblical prophecies seem to be taking shape before our eyes and steadily creeping into reality.  
  
Maranatha (the real one)  
 :)

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braven · 12/28/2025, 6:44:32 PM · permalink

"You’re asking me to reframe the Bible as purely metaphysical insight and set aside its claims to history and physical reality. I’m afraid I can’t do that."  
  
Fear not....for the Lord hates a coward. 😅   
...the devil made me do it.  😇  
  
I am not asking you to do that, not really, hope not anyway; however, I am making a qualified statement of fact.  
The Bible is (mostly) gaslighting when used to explain the physical world.   
  
The onus would be on you to 'prove' otherwise....yes?  
I am not the one making great claims....the ones who do....need great proof.  
  
"For me, the Bible isn’t just spiritual poetry or moral teaching, it presents itself as rooted in real events, real people, and a real God who acts in history."  
  
The most important two words in that sentence.....**For me.**  
  
Yes....for you...all good.  I think I have stated that you are likely impervious to the gaslighting....in a manner that Wolverines and Honey Badgers are immune to some unbelievable ass whoopins.    Some of us are impervious...literally.  
  
I have been in more fights than any one hundred men I know...combined.  Yes...a lot of fights.  What makes a good fighter....one quality....the ability to take a beating.     
This topic requires that same tenacious resilience...yes?      
Idea after idea....take the beat down....refine...reformulate....try again.  
Something like that...and here we are.  
  
However,  cough cough....***and a real God who acts in history.***
  
We might need you to explain the difference between a real God and a not real God?  
...how might one differentiate between the two?  
  
For now...I am going to go with humor as much as possible.   
So....in keeping with that thought...  
  
*God who acts in history.*
***God who acts in his story.***
*Yes....this!*
*A story.😇*

I *believe* you are not interested in gaslighting me.  And I appreciate your integrity.  Thank you for sharing that in our communications.  
  
You are asking for concrete examples...but the whole book is one big example for me.  
I will use the quotes you posted above to make this point a bit clearer.  
  
"Hebrews 4:12 – “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword…”

2 Timothy 3:16 – “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…”  
  
*Sharper than any two edged sword.*     
I have read the Bible several times, the New Testament as well.  
The word of God is not sharp.  As I have mentioned....most any phrase from that book is easily debated at the level of a competent 7 year old.  The lack of clarity, the overuse of cliche, parables, etc....make the sharp 'meaning' opaque to a creative, intelligent human mind.  
  
...and training in righteousness..."  
This is, perhaps, not such a good thing.   
Perhaps the training should have been in humble intelligent debate.  But righteousness...we can do without.  Often goes hand in hand with righteous condescension.  
I realize that vocabulary of the time, and this time. are not conducive to clear meaning....that being noted....a "God" could have left a message that wasn't obscured throughout time...men...not so much...as we can see.   Something like that.  
  
I really appreciate the path you are taking here.   
I am more than a little hesitant to share my 'opinions' on this subject...this is highly contentious at the best of times....and if history plays out....those who spoke against such things....ended up in not good situations.  Something like that.  
  
"..*.just wanted to explain why I can’t switch and treat it only metaphysically."*
  
I will leave it with this....as there seems to be room for more clarity here.  
*Not only metaphysical....but mostly metaphysical.*   
I know this may contradict my earlier assertion.  However, I am attempting to merge our perceptions into a path that can allow both of us to make good use of the Bible, and yet have our own agency when it comes to....fact vs faith.  Does that seem fair...for now?  
  
Maranatha...yes...the real one.  
😇

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braven · 12/29/2025, 4:38:59 PM · permalink

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