Bull in a China Shop

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logical · 3/24/2025, 4:05:01 PM · permalink

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q2025 · 3/24/2025, 6:54:02 PM · permalink

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gracejoy · 11/6/2025, 9:09:48 AM · permalink

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logical · 3/24/2025, 7:03:22 PM · permalink

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nevertheless · 3/29/2025, 6:46:29 AM · permalink

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nevertheless · 3/29/2025, 6:50:23 AM · permalink

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q2025 · 3/29/2025, 8:06:18 AM · permalink

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thoughtcriminal_1984 · 3/24/2025, 6:45:30 PM · permalink

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truthserum87 · 3/24/2025, 1:29:55 PM · permalink

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q2025 · 3/24/2025, 2:45:19 PM · permalink

Hiya TruthSerum!  
Yes, you're right, I am muslim. But China supporting Palestine has nothing to do with my observation. Like you mentioned, Chinese treatment of Uyghur negates "Muslim" support. And yes, thats a point on which China deserves condemnation. Though I would add, given how thoroughly we've been lied to, and how anti-Chinese think-tanks are shutting down without USAID support, I'm just now starting to question the extent of that oppression because i know for a fact that Muslims in other parts of China have not been stopped from practicing their faith or forced into any kind of "neutralization" program.  
  
But even if we assume that's a fact, it still doesn't explain why American politicians paint China as a threat. After all, no American politician has speaks about human right abuses in Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, and many other countries until they have an agenda. Selective moral outrage loses all credibility, especially when it comes from a country that has committed more than its own share of human rights abuses.   
  
Your second point about China being bitter about it's century of humiliation is talking point. I swear I've never ever met a Chinese person who still feels any hatred towards US because of something that UK and Portugal did more than a century ago. Plus, again, if you use that argument then US should consider every non-caucasian country in the world as an enemy that wants revenge. Argentina? Mexico? Japan? Spain? Egypt? Native Americans? We don't consider them enemies who want to re-establish their dominance, though USA, or it's western allies, interfered and invaded plenty. So to accept that line of reasoning only when it comes to China would be unfair.   
  
Your third point about Chinese dominance in ASEAN countries is invalid for the same reasons. USA didn't complain when the UK, France, Israel, Ukraine etc tried to exert influence anywhere. It's their neck of the woods. If anything, it's America which is way out of its waters by keeping multiple carrier groups on the opposite side of the world, no?  
  
But those are all subjective issues. My question remains, has China ever attacked America directly or indirectly through proxy groups? Nope. Has it been found to be undermining the American government or democracy? Nope. Has it done any form of sabotage? Nope.   
  
"They hate us because they're jealous of us", "they hate us because they hate our values", "they hate us because another country invaded them in the 1800s", all sound like a hate mongering propaganda to me. Used again and again to make Americans think islam hates them or Afghans hate them or Iraq hate them etc. Truth is, the american government never had the guts to say "we hate them because we don't like their religion or their color or their economic progress or their oil"  
  
Were under threat has been America's excuse to interfere everywhere. Fact is, no 5 year old child would ever want to pick a fight with a 25 year old man. Other than Japan and the UK, great powers of their time, no country has ever attacked USA.   
  
So the question remains, if even patriotic Americans can't name a single time China actually threatened or attacked USA, why is it painted as a threat?   
  
Simple answer: How else would politicians feed the war machine and their appetite for blood.

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kelspeth · 3/24/2025, 2:53:09 PM · permalink

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truthserum87 · 3/24/2025, 4:26:43 PM · permalink

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kelspeth · 3/24/2025, 4:37:32 PM · permalink

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q2025 · 3/24/2025, 4:05:27 PM · permalink

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kelspeth · 3/24/2025, 4:17:13 PM · permalink

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truthserum87 · 3/24/2025, 4:49:11 PM · permalink

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truthserum87 · 3/24/2025, 4:26:02 PM · permalink

Given the lies we've been told about pretty much everything in recent history warrants deep investigation onto whether what's been said about china and any demonized country for that matter is true or not. I don't hate chinese people so there's no bias there. My contention is mostly with the CCP ruling party. I wish china could've been a more morally responsible superpower. Truth is neither china nor my country the US can be truly called good.  
  
If you're talking china is better than the US in that it doesn't bomb countries into oblivion and wage proxy wars, then I agree with you. There's that at least. You're also right that strategic interests determine how we handle allies and threats. The US has no integrity to speak of and its hypocrisy can not be overstated considering how it's been a tool of Israel thus far. You're preaching to the choir here basically. That's why I joined this group in the first place.  
  
Yeah China's unwarranted behavior in ASEAN waters is partly due them responding to US maritime supremacy but ask any south-east asian fisherman and they prefer UNCLOS over china's code of conduct. China has not conducted themselves in a respectable manner breaching EEZs. Anyhow, pretty much every accusation levied upon other countries, we ourselves are guilty of. I mean think about freedom as an unalienable right our own government violates not just in our own country but abroad by installing puppet rulers and murdering oppositions.   
   
Our politicians are bought and paid for. They live in a bubble. Whatever they say is not the reality of things. When they say china is a threat, it's really a petty response to china's growing economy and global influence. The US is envious of that. Remember the US destroyed japan's economy in the 1985 plaza accords so much so japan hasn't been able to recover. Our government couldn't accept any other country to be the number 1 economy.  
  
I'm not here to make long  winded arguments with you. In conclusion, both countries are guilty for many things for various reasons which are too long to list. Calling a country guiltier than the other,  does not exonerate china from its crimes. It's about the truth and not feelings. My sentiment however is that I don't support war and any single innocent death is a complete fail for humanity. That said I believe in a future win-win scenario between US and China and throughout the world.

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coldwave · 3/24/2025, 2:48:42 PM · permalink

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q2025 · 3/24/2025, 3:57:17 PM · permalink

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kelspeth · 3/24/2025, 2:54:08 PM · permalink

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